I had high hopes for these real leather shoes but since the 8 1/2s (my usual size) and 9s were too short in the store, I got these 9 1/2s online. They have no arch support and aren't really tall enough to add in an orthotic. Worse yet, the mediums are WIDE and these are more like 10s or longer. I put heel pads in the back but they're STILL too long and wide. The first time I tried wearing these shoes for a few hours (when they were VERY loose, without either thin inserts or the heel pad) I noticed that the stitching that keeps the tongue and the sides together had come undone. Great. So I tied them into a knot knowing they wouldn't stay) and sure enough they came undone again. The only way they will stay closed is if someone melts some plastic and drips it on them to lock the threads into place. They should have used thread that wasn't so slippery. These shoes look beautiful but are useless to me as is. Sad that quality control is so sloppy these days.